tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7110103.post2790634622249509578..comments2023-12-27T11:23:38.346-05:00Comments on Vanguard Church - Bob Robinson: MacArthur Fits His Own Criteria for an ApostateBob Robinsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08576734261775426385noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7110103.post-8961999213905812112010-11-04T00:24:07.061-04:002010-11-04T00:24:07.061-04:00I attended Grace Community church back in the 70&#...I attended Grace Community church back in the 70's. I am still recovering from the bad doctrine I learned while listening to Johhny Mac. All I can say is, my walk with the Lord is MUCH MUCH closer since I got out of the hate and judgment based teaching of lol, Grace community church, which has always been a few quarts low on grace.<br />DonAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7110103.post-31741780398388288642008-06-23T16:35:00.000-04:002008-06-23T16:35:00.000-04:00Bob,Thank you for your article. It seems like John...Bob,<BR/><BR/>Thank you for your article. It seems like John MacArthur is use to making himself the standard of truth rather than Jesus Christ. Another MacArthur blunder is his promotion of expository preaching as the only way to understand the Bible. One has to ask if even his way of understanding the bible was even the Authors of scripture's way of understanding scripture. Well, it is not. The author's themselves would not even know about what John MacArthur means with what he calls, 'Expository Preaching.' Check my article called.."Bible Monopoly" at http://cdero.wordpress.com/2008/03/29/bible-monopoly/Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7110103.post-5433356895808879042007-10-27T11:05:00.000-04:002007-10-27T11:05:00.000-04:00Bob, great post and even better reply. Keep up the...Bob, great post and even better reply. Keep up the great work!brad briscohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13260894325252150384noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7110103.post-57834061701993581312007-10-27T10:11:00.000-04:002007-10-27T10:11:00.000-04:00After further review, I've written a rejoinder on ...After further review, I've written a rejoinder on this post. Please read what I've written concerning this post <A HREF="http://vanguardchurch.blogspot.com/2007/10/on-further-review.html" REL="nofollow">here</A>.Bob Robinsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08576734261775426385noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7110103.post-80293140266818045862007-10-24T10:40:00.000-04:002007-10-24T10:40:00.000-04:00I find this entire conversation to be totally flaw...I find this entire conversation to be totally flawed. First, it isn't clear, from what MacArthur is saying, what consitutes "tradition" that cannot be changed in any way. Obviously, he thinks "interpretation" is in bounds, and "revision" is not. So firs that's the first problem. Second, it seems to me Bob's critique further propounds the problem by citing an instance of "inovation" in Christian thought that is embraced by MacArthur. Any sort of doctrinal progress is thought to be condemned in MacArthur's thought. But is that an honest representation of what he is saying? It doesn't seems that way from the quotes, because MacArthur has not been clear. Third, I think representing MacAurther as someone who merely believes in assent to propositional truth for salvation is highly dubious. Anyone who has meager understanding of MacArthur's thought will know this is not true. He is after all the primary expositor of what has been called "lordship salvation."Adam Omelianchukhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02962074536479488859noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7110103.post-4886882106587700922007-10-23T11:52:00.000-04:002007-10-23T11:52:00.000-04:00Bob --I have an extended critique of your essay he...Bob --<BR/><BR/>I have an extended critique of your essay <A HREF="http://centuri0n.blogspot.com/2007/10/truth-war-skirmish.html" REL="nofollow">here</A>.<BR/><BR/>I would be interested in your feedback.FX Turkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16798420127955373559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7110103.post-21766499249742486042007-10-19T21:31:00.000-04:002007-10-19T21:31:00.000-04:00Bob,I have to say that I appreciate how you are gr...Bob,<BR/><BR/>I have to say that I appreciate how you are graciously going about your critique of John's book. I haven't read all your entries on the topic, but if this one is an example, I look forward to reading the others. You are both loving and clear; demonstrating that we should be willing to be judged according to how we judge others. Thanks for the entry, I plan on sharing it with my readers as well through a link soon. Shalom.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7110103.post-69498856803038901442007-10-19T20:47:00.000-04:002007-10-19T20:47:00.000-04:00I guess I really ought to break down and read this...I guess I really ought to break down and read this book. My mother has a copy of it. It doens't look like it would necessarily take long to read it.<BR/><BR/>But I think John MacArthur, servant of God that he is, is in error in some ways himself, and is also in error in the way he has gone after others at times.Ted M. Gossardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10580691315315271791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7110103.post-30040477178656288972007-10-13T14:18:00.000-04:002007-10-13T14:18:00.000-04:00For an excellent analysis of the Emerging Church, ...For an excellent analysis of the Emerging Church, please read the manuscript from Scot McKnight's lecture at Westminster Seminary, entitled "What is the Emerging Church?" <BR/><BR/>It is available for viewing and/or download at my <A HREF="http://www.vanguardchurch.com/emerging_church.htm" REL="nofollow">Emerging Church page</A>.Bob Robinsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08576734261775426385noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7110103.post-77785440901205244832007-10-13T14:12:00.000-04:002007-10-13T14:12:00.000-04:00Crista,Thanks for the link. As you can tell from t...Crista,<BR/><BR/>Thanks for the link. As you can tell from this series of posts (see the links that I now have placed at the bottom of this post for the entire series), I feel that MacArthur is sadly mistaken in his labeling the Emerging Church as being full of hard postmodernists who are apostate false teachers.Bob Robinsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08576734261775426385noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7110103.post-73087726282886344302007-10-12T23:51:00.000-04:002007-10-12T23:51:00.000-04:00i think what is going on here is a little bit (or ...i think what is going on here is a little bit (or a lot of ) the conversation that was happening tonight. it is a story of metanarratives and power grabs that result in violence. <BR/><BR/>just thought i would throw that in there.joehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03980017442038837632noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7110103.post-75129482130286813972007-10-12T21:17:00.000-04:002007-10-12T21:17:00.000-04:00Bob,I was just looking up your blog to post a comm...Bob,<BR/>I was just looking up your blog to post a comment and show you this link: http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/am/v2/n4/emerging-church<BR/><BR/>It is an article that Answers in Genesis did on John MacArthur and his attacks on the Emerging Church, and I wanted to be sure you saw it. So, I came on here and saw you had a post already about the book he wrote. Still thought you'd like to read the article.<BR/><BR/>Crista QuinnAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7110103.post-3060094911587631492007-10-12T18:42:00.000-04:002007-10-12T18:42:00.000-04:00Anonymous,First, I shouldn't respond to your comme...Anonymous,<BR/><BR/>First, I shouldn't respond to your comments since you have not identified yourself. Next time, please "Choose an Identity" as "Other" and tell us who you are. This is not meant to be a nameless ugly debate. MacArthur is known and I am known. Anybody who wants to discuss what I've written or what he's written should be known as well.<BR/><BR/>Second, I didn't call MacArthur an apostate. I simply said that, according to his own criteria for calling Bell, Grenz, McLaren, Franke, Armstrong, Seay, and Miller "false teachers" and "apostate," he too could be called one. Re-read this post. I clearly say, "these labels can just as easily be leveled <I><B>unfairly</I></B> at MacArthur."<BR/><BR/>Third, I've never said that the Emerging Church should be above criticism. I've leveled enough criticism at it myself. However, there is criticism and there is calling people apostate. Criticism graciously states where one disagrees. MacArthur has called people in the Emerging Church apostate.<BR/><BR/>Fourth, you are mistaken in that you presume that my intent is to attack MacArthur, that I see MacArthur as the real enemy in the world, not Satan or sin. Let's be clear here. I didn't write a whole book attacking brothers in Christ; MacArthur did. If MacArthur is willing to do this, then he had better be willing for someone like me to read it, interact with it, and even find fault in it. He had better not be above criticism if he is willing to write books like this.<BR/><BR/>Fifth, you make the classic mistake of critics of the Emerging Church in presuming that we are all hard postmodernists, rejecting any ability to know any truth at all. One need only read this blog for a little while to know that I believe in the existence of truth and that I affirm that Jesus Christ is truth incarnate. I have written quite extensively on evangelism and apologetics here, as well as on a <A HREF="http://www.vanguardchurch.com/postmodernity.htm" REL="nofollow">Christian response to postmodernity.</A>Bob Robinsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08576734261775426385noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7110103.post-87260506503079138262007-10-12T13:52:00.000-04:002007-10-12T13:52:00.000-04:00MacArthur, an apostate?! Now there is a joke for t...MacArthur, an apostate?! Now there is a joke for the ages. A couple of things should be good to mention. First, the emerging Church movement often claims to be above criticism and reacting negatively to it, but you do it anyway. At the risk of oversimplification, I cannot possibly understand why so-called postmoderns have such a difficult time with criticism? Disagreeing, people having differnt opinions. Really.<BR/><BR/>And second, at your risk of oversimplification, don't pretend that you've done fairly explaining dispensationalism. For that matter, you've done very little to make MacArthur's views actually known in their entirety in order to take snipets from his books so that you can attack him. Granted, you have a blog and therefore, don't intend to cover things systematically so that you don't find big faults in your own publications, but neither do you write books specifically targeting you opinion about MacArthur.<BR/><BR/>From what I've read from emerging authors, I don't see that that would help any. For the most part, they're generalized, not saying much just saying, while protesting modernism.<BR/><BR/>MacArthur, a Gnostic? Are you serious. I've heard few things in my lifetime more laughable than that. Of course, you'll call me mean for saying that, probably delete my comment or try to turn it against me. Fair enough. I've come to expect that. I just find it hurtful and discouraging that the church, that knows the truth of the Word of God, his judgments, his salvation, would so willingly say to the word, we don't really know the truth. But then again, if that is your chief argument against MacArthur, then I guess you need it, because MacArthur is the real enemy in the world, not Satan, not sin, not dirty lies that have infiltrated the contemporary church making less of God's Word and more of the person you were created to be.<BR/><BR/>I love the emerging church for two things. It sincerely attempts to evaluate the times and keep the church from being an ignorant of those times. And also that it is a conversation, at least in theory willing to embrace truth as it is found.<BR/><BR/>But that makes me also troubled by it. One it seems to emphasize that we are more enlightened now than ever before because we don't know as much as we thought we did. What makes this time better than the past? Two in the conversation, it doesn't seem that it is actually willing to embrace any truth once it's found, because we can't really know it.<BR/><BR/>Yes, an oversimplification. Just like you did on MacArthur. If MacArthur is an apostate, then I suppose so was Edwards, Luther, Lloyd-Jones, Boice, Rogers, Paton, Moon, Carey, Polycarp, Clement--all passionately believed in the truth of God's Word and would be ready to defend it if it was attacked. Paul was like that too when he wrote the Galatians. Then, to put things a little more grey, they were sinners too. Not always right, but certainly, if you know Christ, then you can know the truth as the Holy Spirit gives illumination as you read the Bible. It can be known, or else, if not, then I guess none will known whether they are saved or not, whether they are in error or not, whether Christ is real or not. You might not be that happy that there is objective truth and it can be known, but since I know some things about myself, I'm glad that it's not all subjective, because if it were, I'd be lost altogether.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com