tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7110103.post115797888100900773..comments2023-12-27T11:23:38.346-05:00Comments on Vanguard Church - Bob Robinson: Five Years After 9/11 – What Christians Have NOT LearnedBob Robinsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08576734261775426385noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7110103.post-65035445791918681912008-04-04T15:12:00.000-04:002008-04-04T15:12:00.000-04:00christians will never learn, because they are blin...christians will never learn, because they are blind lost sheep that will be lead to the slaughterhouse. I dont mean to be a fundy pagan, but Paganism is where your rights end and mine begin. Im aware of the witchtrials, the holocaust, and the numerous christian serial killers on the news, no amount of excuses will make me believe that they were anything but true christians(TM). you can excuse them all you like, but Ive heard it a million times and it makes me roll my eyes everytime. christians stole from the Pagans and Jews alike. Im just a Pagan, because monotheism and polytheism are natural enemies.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7110103.post-1158155618128755602006-09-13T09:53:00.000-04:002006-09-13T09:53:00.000-04:00David,I think you raise some very significant ques...David,<BR/><BR/>I think you raise some very significant questions. Christians seem a bit too confident in their ability to objectively evaluate what it means to obey God.<BR/><BR/>We have the Scriptures as our guide, but far too often we read what we want <I>into</I> those words rather than allowing those words to read <I>into our lives.</I><BR/><BR/>I start with Jesus - What was he <I>really</I> trying to say to us about obeying God? If he was the very incarnation of God, then his words and his actions are the ultimate objective evaluation of obeying God. <BR/><BR/>Some of us, however, have a long way to go in our authentically seeking to follow our Lord. <BR/><BR/>The good news is that we are not a finished product; we are all still in the process of transformation... none of us have arrived yet. The bad news is that far too many of us Christians are not living as if this were the case, living as if we have already arrived (and anyone looking at us can see that this is obviously <I>not</I> the case!).<BR/><BR/>But please be patient with us - there can always be mid-course adjustments!Bob Robinsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08576734261775426385noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7110103.post-1158154778135667352006-09-13T09:39:00.000-04:002006-09-13T09:39:00.000-04:00RonMcK,I certainly would not presume that the 9/11...RonMcK,<BR/>I certainly would not presume that the 9/11 attacks were meant as such a warning, but that would be more fitting for a Christian to say than the statement that Jerry Falwell said on Pat Robertson's 700 Club. <BR/><BR/>"I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People For the American Way -- all of them who have tried to secularize America -- I point the finger in their face and say "you helped this happen."Bob Robinsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08576734261775426385noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7110103.post-1158148511597607492006-09-13T07:55:00.000-04:002006-09-13T07:55:00.000-04:00What does it mean to obey God?How could obediance ...What does it mean to obey God?<BR/><BR/>How could obediance to God be objectively evaluated? Can it be objectively evaluated?<BR/><BR/>Some discussion on this point would be of interest - perhaps as another topic.<BR/><BR/>Regards,<BR/>From an interested atheist.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7110103.post-1158131784292094682006-09-13T03:16:00.000-04:002006-09-13T03:16:00.000-04:00Your fourth point on dualism warrants a lot more t...Your fourth point on dualism warrants a lot more thought. In military disputes, nations often get into an escalating tit for tat of violence, that blows small problems up into crises. Thes situations might be resoved quicker, if one nation did not retaliate but turned the other cheek.<BR/><BR/>RonMcKAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7110103.post-1158131492791368012006-09-13T03:11:00.000-04:002006-09-13T03:11:00.000-04:00Here is another important question. Why did God al...Here is another important question.<BR/> <BR/>Why did God allow 9/11, if America is a godly nation? Why did he allow the planes to hit the business centre and military centre of the nation? Al Qa’ida’s plan could easily have gone wrong, but it did not. Why?<BR/><BR/>In Luke 12:55-56, Jesus rebuked the Jews, because they could read the weather signs, but they could not discern the times in which they were living. His comments must have aroused their curiosity. Luke 13:1-5 records their questions about two events that had happened recently. In the first, some Galileans had been killed by Pilate and their blood mingled with Roman sacrifice. In the second, eighteen people had been killed when the tower of Siloam had fallen on them. Jesus said that the sins of the people killed in these tragedies were no worse than those of other Galileans, or other people living in Jerusalem, but he said that unless they repented, they would all perish.<BR/><BR/>The city of Jerusalem was placing itself under a curse by hardening its heart against the Messiah of God. The two events they asked about were signs of the judgement that would come, if they did not change their attitude. This is what did happen. The Jews crucified Jesus and in A.D 70, the Roman army besieged Jerusalem, smashed down its walls and slaughtered those who survived.<BR/><BR/>The principle is that God sometimes gives a warning by allowing unusual events that are typical of a larger scale judgement which will come if the people do not turn back to God.<BR/><BR/>Has anyone wondered if 9/11 was a warning event for the people of the United States? Is God warning of a business collapse and military defeat for the United States, if there is not change of direction. Who is reading the weather signs?<BR/><BR/>RonMcKAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7110103.post-1158112595245798712006-09-12T21:56:00.000-04:002006-09-12T21:56:00.000-04:00dlw,I'll repost it sometime in the future. I don't...dlw,<BR/><BR/>I'll repost it sometime in the future. I don't want it to distract from the seven I make at this post.Bob Robinsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08576734261775426385noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7110103.post-1158107889865823432006-09-12T20:38:00.000-04:002006-09-12T20:38:00.000-04:00What happened to your 8th point?dlwWhat happened to your 8th point?<BR/><BR/>dlwAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7110103.post-1158092476115541992006-09-12T16:21:00.000-04:002006-09-12T16:21:00.000-04:00Amen, Bob, Amen.Amen, Bob, Amen.The Bosehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03188776440426811935noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7110103.post-1158066391078689452006-09-12T09:06:00.000-04:002006-09-12T09:06:00.000-04:00Good stuff Bob!Though you might have linked to the...Good stuff Bob!<BR/><BR/>Though you might have linked to the <A HREF="http://sodsbrood.com/antimani/2006/09/11/what-are-the-lessons-of-9-11/" REL="nofollow">lessons</A> I wrote about at the anti-manichaeist just to help outta brotha.<BR/><BR/>dlwAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7110103.post-1158021439110599862006-09-11T20:37:00.000-04:002006-09-11T20:37:00.000-04:00You make excellent points. Thank you for all the t...You make excellent points. Thank you for all the thought you obviously put into this. I agree with anonymous that every American Christian would benefit from reading this. I will post a link on my page....not that I get much traffic, but maybe someone who does read it will pass it along.Nancyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03643396653940902200noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7110103.post-1158016212078154802006-09-11T19:10:00.000-04:002006-09-11T19:10:00.000-04:00Bob,I applaud what you're saying here.What I fear ...Bob,<BR/>I applaud what you're saying here.<BR/><BR/>What I fear is that good Christians I know have blinders on, not purposefully, in my mind, but due to bad theology or theological thinking. <BR/><BR/>I could be wrong on this, but it seems to me that for many of us evangelicals, Jesus' words in "the Sermon on the Mount" really don't mean all that much in our everyday lives, or at crunch time.<BR/><BR/>I do struggle a bit with carrying Jesus' words to his disciples over to nations, even for us who elect our officials. But you do raise a very good point: that we should be concerned about an overuse or wrong use of military means, as much as abortion, etc. <BR/><BR/>Thanks!Ted M. Gossardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10580691315315271791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7110103.post-1158013630794794622006-09-11T18:27:00.000-04:002006-09-11T18:27:00.000-04:00Brilliant post, Bob. I wish that every American C...Brilliant post, Bob. I wish that every American Christian would read it. I thought you had been quiet lately, but obviously you were working up a storm.<BR/><BR/>Here is one more for your list.<BR/><BR/>We need to learn how to love our enemies.<BR/><BR/>If we loved our enemies we would not give them labels that dehumanize them. We always fight our wars against huns, nips and gooks. Now it is terrists. I presume the labels make it easier to hate them.<BR/><BR/>If we loved our enemies we would try to understand what motivates them. Calling them “mad” is a cope out. Calling them religious nutters does not help (many people would put that label on us). <BR/><BR/>If we loved our enemies, we would try to understand what motivates an educated young man, with all of life before him, to kill himself for his cause (I am dedicated to our cause, but I am not sure that I am willing to die for it). We might find that he sees the world differently from the way that we see it. We might even start wondering why he sees it that way. Who knows were that would lead.<BR/><BR/>It might even lead to more love, and peace.<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://getrad2.blogspot.com/2006/09/wit.html" REL="nofollow">More Here</A>.<BR/><BR/>Blessings and Thanks.<BR/>RonMcKAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com