tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7110103.post115644099066401107..comments2023-12-27T11:23:38.346-05:00Comments on Vanguard Church - Bob Robinson: Would You Have Left Boyd’s Church?Bob Robinsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08576734261775426385noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7110103.post-1156553365253269982006-08-25T20:49:00.000-04:002006-08-25T20:49:00.000-04:00Bob,Good stimulating thought here!I so strongly ag...Bob,<BR/>Good stimulating thought here!<BR/><BR/>I so strongly agree in Christ having reconciled all things. What I want to learn is how this redemption takes place in Christ, and I'm thinking here, through his people: the Church- his Body on earth. <BR/><BR/>Reading Bonhoeffer presently, is making me wrestle more with the anabaptist view, that it is to be subversive and no less than in congruence with our Lord's "Sermon on the Mount". <BR/><BR/>This is surely just one piece of the whole, but it may be a most important one, not only because of it, but also because of the neglect of it.<BR/><BR/>Of course how its interpreted, the hermeneutics, is certainly always an issue.<BR/><BR/>But I think the Sermon on the Mount, and something of the Anabaptist vision is sorely needed by all today. Especially in all of our life, politics being one part of it. And this being true, whether we agree with it all or not. Wherever we may be on the spectrum of Christian belief in all of this. As I already believe you hold to.<BR/><BR/>Thanks again, Bob. Great stuff. And yes. I would be hurt to be a part of a church that you describe as having left (and really wouldn't want to be part of any of that).Ted M. Gossardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10580691315315271791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7110103.post-1156508070704064242006-08-25T08:14:00.000-04:002006-08-25T08:14:00.000-04:00After further thinking and prayer, I've changed wh...After further thinking and prayer, I've changed what I said about leaving Boyd's church (see the end of the post). FYI.Bob Robinsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08576734261775426385noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7110103.post-1156507687054517082006-08-25T08:08:00.000-04:002006-08-25T08:08:00.000-04:00Miche,AGREED!This is why I am reviewing the book. ...Miche,<BR/><BR/>AGREED!<BR/><BR/>This is why I am reviewing the book. I have purposely immersed myself in Christian political theories so that I can better understand a way out of the stench. <BR/><BR/>Boyd's way out of the stench is a legitimate one - one taken by the Anabaptists. The way out of the stench that I have found myself preferring is the one taken by the Dutch neo-calvinists. But I think that there may be a middle ground between these Christian political theories that I'd like to discover and articulate here, a new way of looking at it that would be in the vanguard, something that would be apealling to an emerging sensibility on the issue, something both biblical and practical in our current situation (postmodern, postconservative, postliberal, postsocialist, postnationalist, post-religious-right, post-religious-left).Bob Robinsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08576734261775426385noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7110103.post-1156484161613359222006-08-25T01:36:00.000-04:002006-08-25T01:36:00.000-04:00I do not fool myself to be so theologically savvy ...I do not fool myself to be so theologically savvy to be able to defend Boyd's position, but what little I have familiarized myself with his thinking, I have truly appreciated his heart regarding this issue. IMHO, there is something very unhealthy in how the religious right and left approach politics and culture in our country. I have never been able to place my finger on it, but it does not take away from the stench I smell when I am confronted by it. Boyd is refreshing to me in light of this. He is on to something, even if it is not theologically air tight.<BR/><BR/>Shalom!<BR/><BR/>MicheAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7110103.post-1156467303715893512006-08-24T20:55:00.000-04:002006-08-24T20:55:00.000-04:00Interesting Bob.I think it is hard for someone liv...Interesting Bob.<BR/>I think it is hard for someone living outside the US to understand how strident and controlling the RR can be.<BR/><BR/>I suspect that here in New Zealand most pastors tend to avoid political issues from the pulpit. This is partly the result of Christianity being more of a minority culture. In some ways, we need more engagement with these issues along the lines you describe in you post.Ron McKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03989126812730583009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7110103.post-1156466793809560862006-08-24T20:46:00.000-04:002006-08-24T20:46:00.000-04:00Thanks for the comment Bob,Now, we need to see if ...Thanks for the comment Bob,<BR/><BR/><I>Now, we need to see if we can get something similar to the British "<A HREF="http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=RNWE,RNWE:2004-51,RNWE:en&q=%22Christians+in+Politics%22+uk" REL="nofollow">Christians in Politics</A>" going for the US. <BR/><BR/>That would be so much more preferable to having the NAE leadership act politically on our behalf, not unlike any other special interest lobbying group. </I><BR/><BR/>dlwAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7110103.post-1156464512270648612006-08-24T20:08:00.000-04:002006-08-24T20:08:00.000-04:00I'd say, yes, WHC tends to be somewhat pastor-cent...I'd say, yes, WHC tends to be somewhat pastor-centric, they do have cell groups. <BR/><BR/>I want a holistic gospel and oppose dualism, as well. <BR/><BR/>I remember when Boyd invited me to join his church back when I was a college student, I didn't go because I felt like I offered up leadership/strength to my local church and didn't think that joining Boyd's church would be that good of an idea. <BR/><BR/>I went to emotional health support groups at his church, a couple of years ago and was blessed by it. <BR/><BR/>Anyways, thought you might like this <A HREF="http://sodsbrood.com/antimani/2006/08/24/christians-in-politics/" REL="nofollow">post</A> about Christians in Politics in Great Britain. What they do is totally in opposition to Boyd, but may be worth learning from for the US.<BR/><BR/>dlwAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7110103.post-1156457588018212492006-08-24T18:13:00.000-04:002006-08-24T18:13:00.000-04:00RonMcK,I guess what I'm saying is that too often I...RonMcK,<BR/><BR/>I guess what I'm saying is that too often I've experienced what Boyd is reacting against: Pastors proliferating the myth of a Christian nation. I've left because I felt that one had to be in agreement with the Religious Right in order to be fully accepted there. It's not an issue of my thinking that the RR is correct or not, its the presumption that this is the only legitimate Christian stand.<BR/><BR/>About being "under" a pastor. I'm not speaking necessarily in Christendom terms, but in the meaning of episkopos, an overseer. I think the pastor is an overseer, and thus in some way I am "under" his "oversight."Bob Robinsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08576734261775426385noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7110103.post-1156455298974968632006-08-24T17:34:00.000-04:002006-08-24T17:34:00.000-04:00BobYou set out a great vision in your last two par...Bob<BR/>You set out a great vision in your last two paragraphs. However, I presume that there are not many churches with pastors that are grappling with these issues in the way you describe. So I doubt that a pastor's failure to do so, is not sufficient reason for leaving a church.<BR/><BR/>I hope that more and more Christians will start thinking in this way about these issues. I suspect it will take longer for pastors to get on board. I am encouraged that Greg Boyd is thinking about the issues and seems to be open minded.<BR/><BR/>BTW. I belong to a house church, where the leaders submit to each other. The concept of being "under a pastor" sounds too much like Christendom to me. Woodland Hills Church sounds very pastocentric. (Its tough being a gifted communicator).Ron McKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03989126812730583009noreply@blogger.com