tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7110103.post114623462847341139..comments2023-12-27T11:23:38.346-05:00Comments on Vanguard Church - Bob Robinson: The Supposed Faith of our Founding FathersBob Robinsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08576734261775426385noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7110103.post-1147150524843333912006-05-09T00:55:00.000-04:002006-05-09T00:55:00.000-04:00I'd argue that the US has always had a diversity o...I'd argue that the US has always had a diversity of manifestation of Christianity with differing views on Church-State issues. <BR/><BR/>I do think that the self-image as new Israel and manifest destiny and a racist view of Anglo-Saxonism superiority had long been part of the dominant ideology in the US. <BR/><BR/>One can also find Christian themes stemming from the first great awakening in "The Ideology of the American Revolution".<BR/>dlwAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7110103.post-1147093967647597412006-05-08T09:12:00.000-04:002006-05-08T09:12:00.000-04:00driz,Thanks for your contribution.Here's another q...driz,<BR/>Thanks for your contribution.<BR/><BR/>Here's another quote from Noll, Hatch, and Marsden on the Christianity of early America, which sheds light on your comment.<BR/><BR/><B>"One of the frequent themes (in the history of the United States) is the declaration of Americans that their nation is like a New Israel. From Puritan New England to the popular Christianity of today, rings of the refrain that America is to be understood not only in the light of Scripture, but especially through the parts of the Old Testament which describes the Hebrews as God’s special people.<BR/><BR/>For just as long, however, another heritage, going all the way back to Roger Williams, has questioned the America-as-Israel theme…Many Baptists, especially when concerned about the separation of church and state, have followed Williams in this New Testament emphasis. Anabaptists and most Lutherans in America, preserving older Reformation traditions, also have usually refused to seek political manifestations of the Kingdom. Revivalists from a variety of heritages have urged a simple New Testament message of personal salvation while carefully steering clear of any divisive social-political issues.<BR/><BR/>Even within the more Calvinistic tradition one important nineteenth-century teaching said that America was more like Babylon that like Israel. This was dispensationalism, which eventually spread widely in twentieth-century fundamentalism and Pentecostalism, which specifically repudiated the idea of ‘Christian’ nations or new Israels.<BR/><BR/>It is remarkable then that, despite so much in America’s theological heritage which repudiates political programs to establish a biblical nation or New Israel, these ideals persist with such power."</B>Bob Robinsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08576734261775426385noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7110103.post-1147040142348998972006-05-07T18:15:00.000-04:002006-05-07T18:15:00.000-04:00Let's distinguish "christian nation" from a "natio...Let's distinguish "christian nation" from a "nation established by christians." keep in mind, the vast majority of souls who populated this new nation were "christian" of one stripe or another. until the late 1800's, nearly 90% of all universities established were done so by cnristian organizations. christian faith permeates the establishment of the USA. that said, the USA wasn't established as a theocracy, contrary to what some politically entrenched conservative believers are trying to promote today.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7110103.post-1146777435976063552006-05-04T17:17:00.000-04:002006-05-04T17:17:00.000-04:00thanks for the additional quotes...It is a thought...thanks for the additional quotes...<BR/><BR/>It is a thoughtful polemic that must be thoroughly disseminated.<BR/><BR/>dlwAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7110103.post-1146710318675298662006-05-03T22:38:00.000-04:002006-05-03T22:38:00.000-04:00Bob, you are now officially back! I've got enough ...Bob, you are now officially back! I've got enough to read, but I might need to read this one. Thanks.Scot McKnighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12464859313317428105noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7110103.post-1146649116082093032006-05-03T05:38:00.000-04:002006-05-03T05:38:00.000-04:00Thanks Bob. Well put, and your statement is sorely...Thanks Bob. Well put, and your statement is sorely needed today. And unfortunately I think this phenomena is related to the religious right's marriage to the Republican party and conservative politics. There is not a good vision of the kingdom of God in Jesus, in all of this, I believe.Ted M. Gossardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10580691315315271791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7110103.post-1146450018586360682006-04-30T22:20:00.000-04:002006-04-30T22:20:00.000-04:00I wonder do they interact at all with the theses i...I wonder do they interact at all with the theses in Robert Fogel's <A HREF="http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=robert+Fogel+%22Great+Awakenings%22" REL="nofollow">book, "The Fourth Great Awakening"</A>, that holds implicitly that it has been traditionally through religious revival/renewal that the US has progressed in its social/political institutions to catch up with the cultural turmoil caused by changing technology?<BR/><BR/>I'd be willing to argue that the Founding Father's dream was implicitly influenced by the first awakening and that the 2nd great awakening was just as if not more important than the specific form that the US Constitution took, as it most definitely was and is a living document.<BR/><BR/>My problem with the religious right is that they're simply elevating their traditional understandings of Christianity, whereas I think the future is going to depend on us experiencing another awakening, hopefully drawing heavily on the experiences of Christainity from the 2/3rds world where Christainity is most vibrant these days....<BR/><BR/>dlwDLWhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17709279441985086959noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7110103.post-1146341222356280222006-04-29T16:07:00.000-04:002006-04-29T16:07:00.000-04:00"There laid they Jesus, and rolled a great stone t..."There laid they Jesus, and rolled a great stone to the door of the sepulchre, and departed."<BR/><BR/>-Last sentence of "The Jefferson Bible"Joshuahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13855068268155504112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7110103.post-1146331943661632442006-04-29T13:32:00.000-04:002006-04-29T13:32:00.000-04:00pa hiles,You've nailed it when you say, "if we are...pa hiles,<BR/>You've nailed it when you say, "if we are to fix the future by looking to our past, we must be sure to get our facts straight!"<BR/><BR/>rich,<BR/>the human rights violations of our founding fathers must give African-Americans pause to place them on pedestals.<BR/><BR/>Jamie,<BR/>Thanks for the heads-up on Armstrong's book. I didn't know she dealt with this subject there.Bob Robinsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08576734261775426385noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7110103.post-1146321218047448532006-04-29T10:33:00.000-04:002006-04-29T10:33:00.000-04:00Karen Armstrong's "Battle For God" also explores h...Karen Armstrong's "Battle For God" also explores how the seeds of this misconception were planted early in the nations history with clear intentions. Great post.<BR/><BR/>Peace,<BR/>JamieAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7110103.post-1146245494381156712006-04-28T13:31:00.000-04:002006-04-28T13:31:00.000-04:00Glad to see someone else blogging about this. My w...Glad to see someone else blogging about this. My wife and I have both posted about this in the past. She is black so has an even lower view of a lot of these FF.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7110103.post-1146244723015095562006-04-28T13:18:00.000-04:002006-04-28T13:18:00.000-04:00bob,i have to agree with you! America was not foun...bob,<BR/>i have to agree with you! America was not founded as a "christian" nation (and I'm not saying this because I'm British either!) as a matter of fact, when the puritan settlers first set sail for this country, starting a christian religion wasn't the first thing on their minds! their minds and hearts were set on escaping tyrannical rule, making a profit, and starting a new way of life!if we are to fix the future by looking to our past, we must be sure to get our facts straight!p.a.hileshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08456462149614632046noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7110103.post-1146240628685838392006-04-28T12:10:00.000-04:002006-04-28T12:10:00.000-04:00Sounds like a great read - thanks for the recommen...Sounds like a great read - thanks for the recommendation.<BR/><BR/>Great to have you back, by the way. ;)ScottBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17351891814953244831noreply@blogger.com