Comments on Vanguard Church: "Greed is Good." Is it always?

IMPORTANT TO ALL READERS: Bob Robinson suffered an...

2006-02-04T10:51:23.043-05:00

IMPORTANT TO ALL READERS:
Bob Robinson suffered an aortic aneurism in the wee hours of Thursday night/Friday morning. Emergency surgery went well, but this is a serious thing. A fuller report is on my blog, www.byron-harvey.com. PLEASE PRAY FOR OUR BROTHER AND FRIEND.

Scot,Capitalism and Socialism...which is good and ...

2006-01-15T16:02:38.406-05:00

Scot,
Capitalism and Socialism...which is good and which is evil?
That is how it is usually painted--we have to choose one or the other, no middle ground.

In American politics, we have Left v. Right (Blue v. Red). As Brian McLaren has said, and many in the Emerging Movement have affirmed (including yourself, as I've seen on your blog), we need to look for positives from both sides and discern that which is not helpful from both sides, and create a PURPLE politic, a PURPLE ethic, a PURPLE faith.

Bob,I'm with you on this. In Embracing Grace I say...

2006-01-15T08:58:48.126-05:00

Bob,
I'm with you on this. In Embracing Grace I say something like "when cracked Eikons get together to devise a system the system itself gets cracked." Permitting capitalism to run its full course is harmful to humans and the world.

Bob's point about grace is spot on. The same evang...

2006-01-13T16:42:06.076-05:00

Bob's point about grace is spot on. The same evangelicals who embrace the concept of "grace" can have trouble embracing "charity" (which is the same word).

Lyricano gets to the meat of the issue: The Gospel...

2006-01-13T16:39:35.300-05:00

Lyricano gets to the meat of the issue: The Gospel according to Christ is less individualistic and more communitarian in essence. It is love for God and love for OTHERS. "Competitive Free Market Individualism" can run contrary to "Kingdom of God."

Christianity is based on God's grace. It is in th...

2006-01-13T13:20:06.266-05:00

Christianity is based on God's grace. It is in the individual's self-interest to utilize this charity in the individual's self-interest. Individuals, however, have no rational interest in practicing grace or charity, except to the extent it benefits them (in which case it no longer is grace/charity but calculated self-interest). That is, leave Grace up God and look out for yourself in the here-and-now.

Jesus may be a gracious bleeding-heart liberal do-gooder, but it does not logically follow that we should be. Accepting charity is a self-interested act. :-)

I agree that capitalism fosters self-dependence. ...

2006-01-13T10:23:51.550-05:00

I agree that capitalism fosters self-dependence. Our society honors the self-made man. Christianity is based on grace which can only be accepted as charity. The two are polar opposites.

But, as the recent recipient of a unmerited gift, I recognize in myself how easy it is to help others and how difficult it is to ask for or accept help in return.

(BTW, did you know that Fed Chairman Alan Greenspan is a disciple of Ayn Rand?)

Consider however, if one believes in Original Sin ...

2006-01-13T09:02:55.170-05:00

Consider however, if one believes in Original Sin and the Sinful Nature of all humans and that we are all destined to Hell but for the literal Grace of God, then why not embrace an Ayn Rand competitive free-market individualism? If people cannot be Good, it is naive to be hopeful in this life. The conservatives are consistent on this point--people are Bad/Sinful so being nice just enables their Badness. (Sidebar: being a stickler for intellectual consistency is also a sign of weakness and a failure to recognize that life is nasty, poor, brutish, and short.) Ergo, the ideas of alturism, community, and society are naive and destructive. Self-interest is the only thing that'll get you into Heaven, so why waste time doing anything else?

Speaking as an atheist, I can honestly say... yes....

2006-01-12T22:28:44.140-05:00

Speaking as an atheist, I can honestly say... yes. It'd be a lot easier to relate to Christianity if its most active members didn't promote an economic system that celebrates exploitation and poverty, something Jesus would have despised. Good for you for questioning the dominant capitalist ideology.